Inner Calling Book Club: Accidentally on Purpose (Chapters 5-8) by Kristen Kish
Victoria Ranade:
Hi, Inner Callers, it's Dr Victoria Ranade, excited because we have our second episode of our Book Club. We're talking about Accidentally on Purpose with Kristen Kish. I love this book!
So welcome! And I have here with me Carlisle Hickey and Western Kramer, who are fellow Inner Caller book club members and creative producers on our show. And so I thought it'd be good to start off with Carlisle, kind of recapping what has happened in the last couple chapters that we're going to be talking about today, which are chapters five through eight. Give us a quick recap.
Carlisle Hickey:
All right, hi everyone. So yes, from what I remember in chapters five through eight, chapter five starts off Kristen's just graduated from culinary school. She's diving into her career scene, and she gets a job being an executive chef, and she's, like, literally two months out of school. She doesn't really have the experience for it, but her, I think there's probably a little bit of ego and just like excitement about the ambition of jumping up so high so soon was feeding into that decision. She gets that job. There's some sketchy stuff happening with the management of that place. It ultimately ends up not working out, and this contributes to a spiral.
She has a lot of challenges with substance use. She ends up moving back home, leaving Chicago, moving back home, and is being very supported by her parents, all this stuff. And then eventually this leads to her move to Boston, where she gets a new job. She ends up meeting her best friend, Stephanie, all this stuff, and this stuff. And this is in chapter six, where she's like, being very supported by her family moving over there. And then we have chapter seven, where she meets Scott, her boyfriend, and that's a relationship I would love to delve into a little bit.
And then chapter eight dives into the breakup with Scott. And then, my favorite part of the section is the Heartbreak Hotel, where it's Scott, her ex-boyfriend, Stephanie, her best friend, and then Stephanie's boyfriend together, which I think is like the best making for a sitcom ever. That sounds hilarious, so yeah, that's where we round out. And chapter eight ends when she's getting very comfortable at Stir, she's being like, mentored by Barbara. And then it goes into chapter nine, which we won't talk about yet.
Victoria Ranade:
Okay, nice recap. It's all coming back to me now.
Carlisle Hickey:
It's basically the period of her young, she's young adulting, but it's the time before she goes into Top Chef.
Victoria Ranade:
Yeah. This was a really great read. What did you think, Western, of this section?
Western Kramer:
I thought this was really cool. These chapters are really part of her, like, formative development in her career. So she's, like Carlisle was saying, she's just at a culinary school, and she's really trying to prove herself. Like everyone does in their early 20s, coming into their 30s, you're trying to make a name for yourself. And Kristen does a lot of succeeding, but also a lot of stumbling. And I think she does a really good job of reflecting on that too, and taking us through that journey of what it meant to be, what she thought was going to be the next hot chef on the scene, and then ultimately finding and connecting with her true voice. And then we sort of take that into the Top Chef era.
Carlisle Hickey:
One of the quotes that I like picked out that I thought was really interesting, Kristen says, “I was entirely obsessed with upward mobility, getting ahead, moving up and on, proving myself and making my way forward, which is when I started becoming restless in my position.” So I got the sense that, like, she wasn't necessarily unhappy, like working in the kitchen, where she like, back at the very start of chapter five, when she's in her position, and she just, like, has this ambition that she wants to move up, and she's very concerned with status, and that's a recurring theme, I think, throughout this section.
Also, she talks about, like, the status of her paycheck, that, she was more focused on that number, and she wasn't concerned about her own financial stability or sustainability. It was like, what does that mean about me and how successful I am? And I think that's a very interesting perception. Did that come internally from her? Was that something society put on her? Did her family? I thought all that was very interesting. And I don't know if you guys related to that, or had any thoughts on that?
Victoria Ranade:
Well, I just love the intensity she brings to her work. I just love like, getting her perspective on what it's like to cook. And also, I think she talks a lot about being a woman in the kitchen, which is really interesting to hear about, and the intensity that's just required in this career.
Carlisle Hickey:
Yeah, I think working in any industry, like especially in the kitchen, though, it's a very male dominated field, and I think there is, like, this culture, which maybe media and like cooking TV shows have had a hand in it, but like, the screaming chef, that's like yelling at everybody, the screaming male tough, like, no tears allowed in my kitchen, Chef, and it's happening. I think, I don't know how much that can be attributed to it, or if that's just, like, a realistic portrayal or a dramatized portrayal. But like, the way Kristen was talking about it, it sounded like it was very much that there's no room for emotion in the kitchen. This is very much like, you show up, you do a 14 hour shift, and you go home. But that's why, I think, like her relationship with Stephanie, when she made friends with her, ended up being so valuable because they had each other. And I'm sure it's helpful to have another woman in the workforce.
Victoria Ranade:
I really enjoyed hearing about the intensity. I could relate to it, understand it. It was like, just this, this, really deep need to express herself through her food. And to be seen, I think, to be seen for her abilities, and to be seen for her passion for the food. I don't know what you guys think about the intensity.
Western Kramer:
Yeah. I mean, they, they talk a lot about, like, in the food industry, it's this drive, this compelling need to be innovative and creative and expressing yourself. And she talks a lot about, too, how initially she didn't really know how to do that until she was able to get like, the right mentorship to help her discover her voice and connect with her roots and implement that like in an effective way, where she's bringing like Korean American cuisine to the table through her influences.
She worked at a variety of different kitchens and was able to, like, really level up like her cooking each time, and I think so much of that is the environment that she was around the having that shared collective drive and that the desire to experience something together, that synergistic effect of your work, expectations of yourself meet the goals that you set for yourself, and that aligns with your colleagues and your co workers, you can come together and achieve something that's like next level.
And initially, she was at like, almost like a war within herself, trying to figure out, do I want to be just better than other people? What is successful? Is it just that I have to create more, I have to innovate more? Or it was like, as she then starts to develop and connect with her own true voice. She's able to figure out what she brings to the table and how that's different or more unique, and more compelling.
Victoria Ranade:
Yeah. But I feel like in the chapters five through eight, right, wasn't she at that restaurant that failed, right? So I hear what you're saying Western, like, working as part of a team and being in a culture that's intense. But like, also, she was part of a team that wasn't functioning well, and she was really intense, but that didn't seem like a good work environment.
Carlisle Hickey:
What, I think, what I took away from that, is yes, at the beginning, when she, like, had barely any experience and got like executive chef. I think that's incredible, but that's also, I think that yes, she was part of a team, but she was also supposed to be, like, the leader of that team. And I don't think she had, and I think she had missed this in the book. I don't think she had the experience to be prepared for that, and -
Victoria Ranade:
That's right, yeah.
Western Kramer:
Yep.
Carlisle Hickey:
And so I don't think she understood -
Victoria Ranade:
Because she felt like she had to prove herself, and she was working so intensely to prove herself.
Carlisle Hickey:
Yeah. And I think absolutely, she had the work ethic, absolutely, to do that, but just maybe not the experience yet. Because being 22, 23 years old, and like, being the boss of a kitchen with people that have decades more experience than you do, I think that's, like, very intimidating. And I think there's a sort of awareness that you probably need. But I do think, what she had when she took a break and went back home and then came back, I do think she found, like, the synergy, like in the work environment that Western was talking about. I think she found that at her place and following at the top. I think the restaurant was, or it's more like she learned how to work as a team. So yeah, I think maybe just time and experience you got to go through it.
Western Kramer:
Yeah. Well, it says, I mean, it's kind of like a commentary on the preparation that you put into something, versus the lived experience of actually accumulating that. The preparation she got in her culinary school was top notch, some of the best in the world. But at the same time, she goes to implement it, and then tries to be an executive chef and lead all these people with these skills, and she can't.
Victoria Ranade:
Well I think it's like a humbling -
Western Kramer:
Yeah, it's humbling, for sure, to be like, Oh yeah, I guess I don't know anything.
Victoria Ranade:
That was what was interesting about this section of the book was the humbling in that, on some level, we all need to be humbled. Humbling is actually really healthy in life.
So she was Executive Chef, and then she was and then also she developed that coke addiction, right?
Yeah, from being in the kitchen and being in that intense environment, and then she had to move back home. And then just being really humbled by that, and then coming at her work with a different energy before she goes to Boston. And then Boston being a different experience for her, because she had this different energy from being humbled.
Carlisle Hickey:
Yes.
Victoria Ranade:
And so I think, when I was reading this, I'm in my late 30s, and as I was reading this, I just had so many flashbacks to my 20s. There's just this feeling in your 20s, like what we're saying, you have to prove yourself, you feel like you have a drive. You're just like, this is how it is. I don't want to say it's this feeling like I know everything, but I think there's a feeling you get early in your career, that I need to prove myself. I need to prove that I do know everything. And then like, life humbles you.
Western Kramer:
Yeah.
Victoria Ranade:
And that's a good thing.
Western Kramer:
Yeah, the more you learn in life, it's like, the more experience you get.
Victoria Ranade:
the more you realize you don't know.
Western Kramer:
Yeah, the more you realize you don't know anything.
Victoria Ranade:
Yeah, and I loved reading about her developing her life in Boston, and just like finding friends and finding her place, like a home there. That was cool.
Carlisle Hickey:
I think that shows a great example of found family, how your friends can turn into this really special family that you have. I think she finally found that, because it sounds like the past three kitchens she had worked in, she's just that they hadn't had that sense of community. But it sounds like she really did that.
Victoria Ranade:
Yeah.
Carlisle Hickey:
And like, Kristen talks about being so, like, reserved and around her. Not wanting to be like, okay, just because we're two women in the kitchen doesn't mean we have to be best friends. But then it ends up happening. Because Stephanie cut her hand or something, and then had to go to the ER, put a splint on her finger, and that was back at work, like, two hours later, and like that, show of work ethic, like she was like, okay, dang, I appreciate, I respect that woman. She knows what she's doing. And then they ended up, like, banding together, like pranking the guys.
Victoria Ranade:
Really cool. Where did she meet Stephanie, Steph again? Sheila, Steph, were her best friends. Was that at Top of the,
Carlisle Hickey:
I think it was Top of the Hub. And I really liked that section when she talked about that, actually, because she talked so much about being a male dominated space. And then another woman comes on.
Victoria Ranade:
I know, it was really cute, reading about their friendship.
Western Kramer:
Yeah. Have you guys ever had that sort of, like work bestie, where you've had to band together before and ultimately developed a true best friend relationship out of that? Like, have you ever had that? Have you ever had a Stephanie?
Carlisle Hickey:
Have you had that Western?
Western Kramer:
Yeah.
Carlisle Hickey:
You have? Aww.
Western Kramer:
I did, in a biotech company. But yeah, we would trauma bond together. It was like, oh, what assignment did you get handed? Oh, they wanted to have a meeting with you as you were walking out the door too? Oh, cool. Let's stay after hours together while everyone else goes home. Yeah.
Carlisle Hickey:
I think there is something really special about certain shared experiences. Because you're going through something and you're spending, in a nine to five job, 40 hours a week with somebody. Like, that's a third of your third of your life each week.
Western Kramer:
Yeah.
Carlisle Hickey:
But something I think is special about working in a kitchen, probably in different types of careers, is it's not necessarily a nine to five schedule. You are there like, it consumes, like, your whole day, pretty much. And I think it would be very organic to shift, like, the boundaries between what's a friend and what's a work friend. Because I feel like, for me, I've always had what's a work friend or a personal life friend. But no, I think if I was working at a kitchen like that, yeah, maybe you don't really have much free time, absolutely.
Victoria Ranade:
Yeah.
Western Kramer:
You're seeing these people more than your own family.
Carlisle Hickey:
Exactly.
Victoria Ranade:
And then what was interesting was, just seeing how Kristen's career took off, because Steph left Top of the Hub to go work for Barbara.
Carlisle Hickey:
Yes.
Victoria Ranade:
And then that's how Kristen got connected to work for Barbara at Stir.
Carlisle Hickey:
Yeah. And that was really cool, because I think the way she described Stir, it sounds like it was like a women-led restaurant. It was very interactive, the whole place was different. The kitchen wasn't separated from the floor, like where people were eating. It sounds like it was, almost she was on a stage almost, for people. And I think that it sounds like she learned a lot from that also, and gave her a lot more connection to, like, the purpose of what she's doing, and seeing the joy on people's faces.
Victoria Ranade:
I enjoyed reading that part about the woman led restaurant, and how the culture differed from the other places she had worked. And like, what her relationship with Barbara was.
Western Kramer:
It was like a lot less egos wrapped up in everything too, right? Like she's saying, like, when you work in male dominated environments, I feel like it's very often the case, not always, but very often, where men have egos, they have to prove them, and they have to win out. And it's like, doesn't matter if it's the right way or the better way to do something, it's just because it's what they came up with, and they want to see their vision executed.
And you're like, cool, cool, man, that's good for you, but it was cool to see her kind of talk about working in that environment, where that was left at the door, and then they got to actually innovate together. And really that's where they got to start to have that more shared experience of understanding each other's goals and then being able to help support that like for themselves, but then also for each other.
Carlisle Hickey:
I really like that a lot, because it seems like in the previous restaurants, she had talked about previous mentors she had It was very much like they might give her a word of praise, or they might put her in a position, but it was, and it felt like they also it was a double edged sword, like they also were like might be very heavy on criticism, or didn't support her in the way that like would have made her successful. But it seems like, on the other hand, Barbara at Stir went out of her way to uplift Kristen and like before Top Chef. But even just when Kristen made a meal, like in front of the little stage that they were like, preparing the food for their clients and the customers, she would spotlight Kristen and be like, she made this meal, it was amazing. Kristen, why don't you go ahead and explain it, and went out of her way.
Victoria Ranade:
Yeah, I thought it was so cool. I loved hearing about it, I actually really enjoyed learning about Barbara.
Western Kramer:
Yeah.
Victoria Ranade:
What kind of leader and mentor she is to her staff, yeah.
Carlisle Hickey:
Because it sounds like Kristen's experience with her was so incredible. And like she credits Barbara to like, lifting her up and providing all these opportunities. But I thought there was a sentence, if you guys remember this also, where she mentioned my experience with Barbara was this, and I don't want to invalidate anybody else, but this is, like, the valid experience that, like other people did not have as positive an experience with Barbara. And I thought that was interesting.
Victoria Ranade:
Oh I did not remember that sentence.
Western Kramer:
She did say that, but that's a really heavy caveat.
Carlisle Hickey:
It sparked my interest, and I Googled it. I was like, oh, there were some, like, workplace -
Victoria Ranade:
What did you Google? What did you find?
Carlisle Hickey:
Just that there were some toxic workplace allegations. So it sounds like not everybody had such a positive experience working in Barbara's kitchen. But, I think what I loved about that example was like, you have your experience. You're not going to discredit somebody else's, but you're not going to hold back or hide or change your experience with her there. I don't know. It was interesting, so I'd be curious to read more about that.
It made me go on a little tangent about, okay, how would I handle something like that, if my mentor, or something like that, treated me really wonderfully, but then didn't treat somebody else, like, you know, how would you handle that situation?
Victoria Ranade:
Yeah.
Carlisle Hickey:
So I don't know. I thought Kristin handled it with a lot of grace.
Victoria Ranade:
Very interesting. Yeah, what did you guys think of her relationship with Scott?
Carlisle Hickey:
I thought it was interesting. I didn't know where it was gonna go at first.
Victoria Ranade:
It sounded really nice at first, yeah?
Carlisle Hickey:
Yeah. Like, a platonic, yeah, okay. I don't think it's completely platonic. I think, they found in each other, like a very platonic love, or, yeah, I know it didn't start out like that, but it definitely changed. It surprised me, how well they or, like, how close they stayed and remained, how close friends and how close their relationship was, like following the breakup, which was interesting. I feel like most people in that position would just fully separate from each other, but they stayed roommates afterwards, which is wild and very cute.
Western Kramer:
It was very peaceful, very cordial.
Victoria Ranade:
I know, I can't believe that they stayed as roommates after they broke up.
Like, really best, they sound like best friends, like, when you're in a relationship with your best friend. Yeah.
Carlisle Hickey:
And it sounds like they still are friends to this day, which I think is incredible.
Victoria Ranade:
But like, I'm interested in what you guys think as it relates to her, like, journey of coming out and being queer and understanding herself, to date Scott. What did you think Western?
Western Kramer:
I feel like it's a good introduction for her to like finding what true love is. Like she might not have shared, because she talks about this too. She's like, I loved him and still do. But it's not that we necessarily needed or wanted that sort of physical drive from her. She's saying it's more going through the motions. It felt a little more performative in that sense, but their relationship and their connection that they truly shared, I think, gave her a good framework for what she wanted in relationships.
Going forward, she talks about how there's a lot of like stepping stones in terms of finding out what you want, but just as much of what you don't want. And for her, that was like, oh, I want to be loved and heard and supported. But I don't want a man to do that. I need somebody else. She's able to find out what she needs in that relationship and then grow from that, but still able to keep things cordial with him.
Carlisle Hickey:
A lot of mutual love and respect there, I thought, which is nice. It seems like that's a common theme in Kristen's life, with all of the relationships she introduces, like, all of her friends and stuff, which is incredible. I'm still saying her parents are the superheroes in this book. I don't know, just hearing about everything, it's just so incredible to hear about that.
Western Kramer:
I feel like she had one, really, going back to the humbling part, really humbling moment when she talked about how she's partying with her friends at 2am and she's trying to swipe her card to pay for this dinner experience for a whole room full of people. And then the card declines. And then she in her like, alcohol slash substance induced mania at 2am calls her dad and is like, yo, can you reload my card with money so I can, like, pay for this dinner for all these people. And he actually, yeah, sure, but it was like, at that moment, she thought that it was totally a normal and acceptable thing to do was to call your parent at 2am and ask for more money while you're drunk.
And then later, with hindsight, was able to reevaluate and reassess that, and really came to understand that was like a turning point to where she was taking her life. And that's not how she wanted to be, or how she wanted to treat her parents, like after everything that they've done for her. I was still really surprised too, that they, stuck by her side and wanted to see through it, you know. They understood that this was not like an ending path for her, that this was still a stepping stone, and that, of course, she's still gonna stumble, but make the right decision in the end. And they're like, okay, we'll send you the money. We're gonna talk about this, but I'm not gonna shame you and embarrass you. That's not gonna help you learn this lesson, like you need to figure this out on your own, but like, still providing that sort of cushion for her to fall, like more gently, rather than to fall completely just on her face. They loved her, and it's really apparent.
Carlisle Hickey:
No, I think that's extremely apparent. And I think it's so cool how they like they have a good pairing of providing a lot of support, but also a lot of space, like when she's and she even talked about this in like, the first section we talked. About, like, when she's, like, making mistakes, and should I be drinking or anything like that? Like, they don't necessarily, like, yeah, punish her, but they're giving her space because they, like, Kristen says, like, she knows that they knew she was working on something and, like, working something out with herself, and there's something that she needed to come to terms with.
Victoria Ranade:
You really do have to give parents a lot of credit when they let you make mistakes.
Carlisle Hickey:
Absolutely, yeah. Especially ones that are, like, draining their bank account, and, maybe not draining,
Victoria Ranade:
Draining, yeah.
Carlisle Hickey:
or looping your parents financially in. Like, they let her move back home. And I think that's so incredible. And I mean, there's a lot of parents I think that would also be in that same situation, but it is impressive, and it's very sweet.
Victoria Ranade:
It was, yeah, and reading it, they talked, she talked about the Heartbreak Hotel with Scott and stuff, living together. That was cute, too.
Carlisle Hickey:
I know, I loved that. I think that's one of my favorite parts. I think in the last episode, we talked about our favorite parts of the book. And I think for this section, it was just like seeing all these heartbreak moments. They're just like wholesome moments. I think just seeing that the breakup with Scott didn't end, and, obviously it was hard for both of them, but it didn't end with a huge fight and people hating each other. I just think that's so sweet when there's a resolution.
Or, like, her developing relationship and like, friendship with Steph. I think that's so sweet. And just like, all these things, or even, the full circle moment she had with her mom when her mom came to stay with her once. Kristen finally had her own apartment. And there was, I think there's a quote she has, or there's she said something like, I was so happy in this moment, because I was kind of, like proving to my mom I could take care of myself. Like there was a shift where it's now her mom's not, like, waiting for her to fall and like being there to catch her, which, like she probably still would be. But at this point, Kristen's like I'm proving to you that, like I've done it. Thank you so much for your help getting here.
Victoria Ranade:
Like stuff like that was so cute and wholesome. There was a wholesomeness to it. So despite, like, the ups and downs. I have to say, it was hard not to keep reading beyond the section, because she starts going into the next chapter, talking about Top Chef right? That's when her Top Chef era starts beginning.
Carlisle Hickey:
Yeah. I think this is a lot of her finding herself and getting her footing, which I think was like great groundwork, but yeah, it absolutely, then it starts getting good.
Victoria Ranade:
Yeah. Okay, thank you everyone for joining us with our book club discussion today. We're gonna be reading on to chapters 9 through 12, and then joining up again later this fall to talk about that part of the book. But thank you for joining us..